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Mortgage Broker News | 01 May 2014, 09:45 AM Agree 0
CAAMP CEO, Jim Murphy, is using a column in the country’s leading national newspaper to hawk the benefits of using brokers but more specifically – and more controversially – those of AMPs.
  • Christopher | 01 May 2014, 11:18 AM Agree 0
    AMP courses are probably of some use to newer brokers and agents, but a waste of time and money for the old guard who keeps current with lender and other relevant policies.
  • Frank | 01 May 2014, 11:23 AM Agree 0
    I know many mortgage brokers without AMP credits who are great brokers. I also know many that have AMP credits, and are not good for our business.
  • VLT2 | 01 May 2014, 11:33 AM Agree 0
    Of course he is going to give a plug to AMP's, it is CAAMP's whole reason to be. You should expect nothing less. Having the AMP designation myself, I am not sure how much it helps but I say thanks. It can't hurt.
  • Jennifer | 01 May 2014, 11:36 AM Agree 0
    I agree with both statements by Frank and Christopher. It is a marketing tool that newer agents/brokerages use to ligitimze themselves. CAAMP is using to AMP as a cash grab.
  • Peter | 01 May 2014, 11:40 AM Agree 0
    Then those who claim they are experienced, then apply for the AMP, support your industry by setting yourself up with the AMP. If I was a client, I would wonder why my broker would not spend time to obtain the AMP designation in the first place. For those old guards that keep current on legislation and lenders, then spend that extra time via the AMP.
  • SWK | 01 May 2014, 11:46 AM Agree 0
    I am sure many of the best brokers don't have an AMP due to the restrictive membership by-laws of CAAMP!
  • Sue McCormick | 01 May 2014, 11:46 AM Agree 0
    Cash grab to attach AMP to your name.
  • Dawn | 01 May 2014, 11:51 AM Agree 0
    It is really important to have a national voice in the industry as Professional Mortgage Brokers. Each of us has benefitted by CAAMP lobbying the Government on our behalf. I am happy that I do not have to collect and pay GST as an example. CAAMP works for our industry and every Broker should be a member to support their on going efforts. Please stop the negative postings, it does nothing to promote a positive industry. 12 year member of CAAMP and MBABC AMP
  • Chandra | 01 May 2014, 11:52 AM Agree 0
    I use to support CAAMP and is an AMP but when we need CAAMP's support and help they are not there for us so I am thinking of not supporting them in the future.
  • Brian Lambert | 01 May 2014, 11:59 AM Agree 0
    The whole AMP designation is broken. You become knowledgeable and up to date on the market by working full time daily in your business. I've seen this same lame attitude in the insurance and investment industry, it is just a money grab by the associations. It gives no creditability to individual Brokers. Clients do business with you and refer you, on what you know, how you educate them and your professionalism. This business does not have a lot of moving parts, it is repetitive in nature and does not take a whole lot of training. The problem is in training. New entrants in this business should have to work under a Working Broker for three years and they should have to complete a mandated on the job training program which is signed off by the broker. All mortgages the new entrant does should be again checked and signed off by the Broker, all responsibility to those deals should fall on the Broker. This is how the insurance industry works when they changed over to their new system years ago. Their is no designation out their that will make new entrants knowledgeable and understanding of their local markets than TIME IN.
  • Werner | 01 May 2014, 12:18 PM Agree 0
    The only sure thing I know they do is they ask me to give them $250 and they give me a magazine.
  • VLT2 | 01 May 2014, 12:40 PM Agree 0
    I get where people think it is a cash grab, but I have to disagree and I am not new to the industry. Dues are not expensive and I have never had to pay for a single CE credit because I attend industry events that offer them for free. It does help me stay informed. Most of my business is by referral just as everyone else is so if I get one deal because it has AMP after my name, it is worth it. If I get a referral from that client then it is really worth it. If Brian thinks any broker should have 3 years experience that is good. Perhaps he should be advocating this through CAAMP to make this change. I wonder if the changes in the insurance industry happens without its association that is also being accused as being one big cash grab.
  • Christopher | 01 May 2014, 12:42 PM Agree 0
    Peter - I have 10 years experience as a banker and more than 20 as a mortgage agent working for both small and super brokers. I got far more value spending thousands getting my AICB though ICB (now CSI) than i ever did from my AMP designation which is Mickey Mouse by comparison.
  • Peter D. | 01 May 2014, 12:57 PM Agree 0
    The goal of CAAMP should be to unite not divide the industry! They have made claims that non AMP brokers were less ethical, now less educated. When members have opted out of the program, CAAMP reported them to REDX to get even. All for the sake of a tax and not much more! Is it any wonder that I am not surprised when I hear rumours CAAMP is loosing members. We all put our pants on one leg at a time and CAAMP should acknowledge that there are good and bad in every industry, AMP is no exception, then stop these subtle public attacks on this industry.
  • Geoff | 01 May 2014, 01:09 PM Agree 0
    I was an AMP previously and found it had no impact on my business. I have now chosen not to renew my AMP. Does that now mean I am less of a broker? I didn't all of a sudden become less capable overnight simply because I didn't pay a fee.

    Perhaps we should give the FSCO licensing requirements much more teeth so that we can promote all that still qualify as worthy of the title.
  • John Bargis | 01 May 2014, 01:17 PM Agree 0
    Simply put, this is classless, and frankly a misrepresentation to the consumer about the facts on the AMP.

    The FACT is that the vast majority of the industry DOES NOT hold an AMP, and for very good reason - It does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the consumer, or the broker industry, and that's the reality.

    Mr. Murphy is once again backhanding the thousands representing the majority of our industry as professional Brokers /Agents, who don't care for the AMP FARCE. Their stellar reputations don't need an AMP designation to prove their value with their client's who would attest to the sound financial advice they provide.

    Mr. Murphy you owe the industry professionals an apology, including the majority of CAAMP members who are not AMP's.

    Perhaps new leadership would be a breathe of fresh air, and the industry could then work on sincere cohesiveness.
  • Brian Lambert | 01 May 2014, 01:29 PM Agree 0
    @ VLT2: I did not say Brokers should have at least 3 years experience. I said that new entrants to this industry should be on a mandatory 3 year apprentice program (on the job training) supervised by their immediate Broker and signed off by that Broker. I would further suggest that it be implemented by FSCO and supervised through CAAMP or IMBA You would end up with a much better trained agent and much happier clients with less regulatory issues. Today agents come to this industry with little to no training. The basis agent course teaches them nothing at working in this industry and any follow up education is mundane at best. There is nothing better than real world experience. Hanging a shingle out side your office on a business card really says nothing. The AMP designation is a joke and any long serving Broker or agent knows it.
  • Lior, Mortgage Edge | 01 May 2014, 01:50 PM Agree 0
    “Using the services of an AMP when taking out a mortgage will help you navigate the home buying process and provide you with peace of mind."

    What an idiot! As JB said, the majority of brokers, including those who are CAAMP members, are not AMP. They refuse to obtain the designation not because they are less professional than someone who does have it, but because it does not add value to their business or customers. The AMP is ridiculously easy to obtain and any monkey can call themselves an AMP after taking a simple exam. As a non-AMP, Mr. Murphy, I very much work with clients and lending partners on a daily basis. I don't need to pay you an extra amount every year to put 3 additional letters on my business card.
  • Misrepresented | 01 May 2014, 02:06 PM Agree 0
    Good analysis by John Barges. I am not new to the industry, in excess of 25 years, and question every year my AMP renewal. I completed the AMP program many years ago to appease senior CAAMP officials who constantly “asked” me to get on board I assume in part because of my tenure and visibility as a non-AMP. In that time period I have never once been asked by a client if I have AMP status, I have polled my Agents and they concur that they have never been questioned about AMP status and I have kindly asked that they maintain their AMP status. In light of Mr. Murphy’s AMP biased opinion my Agents are taking me to task and I need to rethink my support of CAAMP.
    Mr. Murphy’s comments that AMP’s “are best suited to finding the right mortgage product,” giving clear connotation that they are better equipped over non-AMP Mortgage Agents is divided and without merit. Anyone active in attending industry events, or involved with in-house seminars by approved CAAMP presenters comprehends how simple it is to secure the necessary credits for your AMP, this does not give you the upper hand as a Mortgage Agent/Broker it simply appeases CAAMP’s requirements for AMP.
    CAAMP’s focus is misguided and not in the overall best interest of the majority it represents.
  • John Bargis | 01 May 2014, 02:29 PM Agree 0
    The industry is clearly deeply divided. Mr. Murphy's biased misrepresentations have only served to further drive a much deeper wedge between it.

    Very unfortunate for these irresponsible and self serving comments.
  • Atricle Recommends BROKERS | 01 May 2014, 05:29 PM Agree 0
    This article will bring positive attention to ALL BROKERS - isn't that a good thing?
  • Ron Butler | 01 May 2014, 08:38 PM Agree 0
    I wish CAAMP would start to bridge the divide John Bargis points out. CAAMP has the money and the organizational heft we need but it must become more grass roots. It should listen more to the average broker member and re-think the AMP designation. AMP should have real merit, real weight and become something that all the great mortgage brokers who are not interested in having the designation now change their minds and feel they want to have it. That is going to require a complete re-think of what is happening right now.
  • Past AMP | 02 May 2014, 10:49 AM Agree 0
    I've been in this industry for over 15 years, as a senior person.. lender and agent. I used to have an AMP about 8 years ago. I should have known when I took the 'ethics' course and an agent asked 'if I don't get caught by the lender doing fraud, how will they ever know, and will I still loose my license?'!!
    Then over the next couple of years watching all the part time cab drivers calling them selves mortgage agents get their AMP pushed me over the edge. Its a joke to get. Its a joke to keep. Come on.. Credits to attend symposiums that are nothing more than sales/marketing plays by Greg Williamson? I have been under intense pressure to re-apply for my AMP. I am holding strong until I feel having AMP beside my name isn't an embarrassment.
  • John Bargis | 02 May 2014, 11:49 AM Agree 0
    To: Article Recommends BROKERS

    Your comment is with good intentions I'm sure. But you don't have to read between the lines to know that the article is a slight on the vast majority of Mortgage Professionals who see the AMP for what it is - NOTHING.

    Mortgage Professionals NOT holding an AMP, do not take a back seat to those with the designation who decide to pay for the acronym on their business card. The message in the article as it relates to the AMP was misleading and plain ignorant. If there was any doubt that the leadership of CAAMP is ignoring the call for REAL as opposed to APPARENT change, the message in the article should make things very clear.

    Like I said earlier, Mr. Murphy owes the industry a public apology. Then maybe we can begin with the healing process, but much work still needs to be done.
  • race to the bottom | 04 May 2014, 04:23 PM Agree 0
    10yrs in the biz, never had a client that knew what an AMP was or asked me what it stood for. Isn't AMP some kind of drink?
  • Garry Dicks | 05 May 2014, 09:39 AM Agree 0
    I spend a few hours and a few dollars each year to keep my AMP accreditation. Not because I think it makes a great deal of difference to my clients, I do it to support CAAMP. We all need to realize that the "big 5" are one of the largest (if not the largest) lobby groups in Ottawa. And without a national voice supporting our industry in Ottawa, the banks could and would make our industry unsustainable.
  • Garry Dicks | 05 May 2014, 09:39 AM Agree 0
    I spend a few hours and a few dollars each year to keep my AMP accreditation. Not because I think it makes a great deal of difference to my clients, I do it to support CAAMP. We all need to realize that the "big 5" are one of the largest (if not the largest) lobby groups in Ottawa. And without a national voice supporting our industry in Ottawa, the banks could and would make our industry unsustainable.
  • Geoff | 05 May 2014, 09:54 AM Agree 0
    @Garry can CAAMP lobby on our behalf against the "big 5" since those same "big 5" are also CAAMP supporters? If that's your reason for supporting them then I'd suggest you double check to make sure your money/support is directed in accordance with your wishes.
  • Ex-amp | 05 May 2014, 10:48 AM Agree 0
    I've held my AMP designation twice....once while I was with Scotiabank as a mortgage specialist and they paid the whole shot to get us our AMP designations then decided to back out of it after they found out CAAMP supported the broker industry not the banks. Then when I became a broker I got my designation again and held it for 2-3 years but like another poster said here....not once did I have a client who knew what it meant nor did they specifically deal with me because of it. What broke the camels back was that 2 brokers in my small communities have their AMP designations and both are known to be the place to go if you "really need a deal done" and I refuse to do that. So I realized AMP is something only people in our industry recognize and if you're unethical enough to have your AMP stripped you'll like lose your license too.
  • John Bargis | 05 May 2014, 10:55 AM Agree 0
    To Garry Dicks....

    The issue here is not the idea of having the National representation. The issue is the agenda of the questionable CAAMP leadership, that refuses to properly represent the industry, which was evident with the Globe publication last week.

    Sincere change, and new leadership is a very good start.
  • Devon | 27 Apr 2015, 10:58 AM Agree 0
    Should be another organization formed to represent the vast majority of agents and brokers who aren't "Certified AMPS" and aren't professional in CAAMP's view because they don't pay an annual due. Should we not be represented by CAAMP or is this a conflict of interest by CAAMP?
  • George | 27 Apr 2015, 12:23 PM Agree 0
    CAAMPs business model of kicking back money to brokerages/managers who require their brokers to be members of CAAMP is messed up. I wonder if the long term plan was to require those members to also become AMPs so as to raise CAAMP's income and to raise the roof for the kickbacks.

    This business model has been used in history before and most often by shady businesses, it never ends up nice and hurts the image of the industry and brokers.

    Honesty and transparency would go a long way. CAAMP can not be fixed. There are too many problems that go to the very root of its existence.
  • Peter D | 27 Apr 2015, 09:08 PM Agree 0
    Here is an option to CAAMP, join your Provincial Association and read this. Provincial Mortgage Broker Associations Launch CMBA – The Canadian Mortgage Brokers Association.

    The various mortgage broker associations in Canada have been in discussions for over two years to determine the best means of creating greater co-ordination and efficiencies. It was determined that the formation of a national umbrella organization, CMBA, would not only enhance already strong regional representation but also promote higher standards and awareness across the country. CMBA will be an organization by mortgage brokers for the entire mortgage broker industry.

    The MB logo will be a universal symbol to represent member mortgage brokers across Canada. It will provide instant recognition and will differentiate member mortgage brokers. One of CMBA’s goals is to promote the use of member mortgage brokers and increase their market share. This will benefit all industry partners and bring greater benefit to mortgage consumers.

    Mortgage broker regulation is provincially regulated and is the core focus of provincial associations. However, CMBA can provide a national voice for mortgage brokers on any issues which are inter-provincial or national in scope. In addition, CMBA provides a platform for mortgage broker associations to share in broker-focussed initiatives, which will make program delivery in each province more efficient and comprehensive.

    Further information will be released during the upcoming IMBA - Independent Mortgage Brokers Association of Ontario- conference this Wednesday and Thursday April 22nd and 23rd. There will be a question and answer period from 2:30pm to 3:00pm on April 23rd.

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