Brokers feel slighted by CAAMP article

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A sponsored feature in the Globe and Mail by CAAMP President and CEO Jim Murphy has divided the industry; with brokers who are not AMP-designated feeling snubbed.

 “Mr. Murphy is once again backhanding the thousands representing the majority of our industry as professional brokers /agents, who don't care for the AMP,” John Bargis, former CAAMP chair and broker with Mortgage Edge wrote in the comments section of “Their stellar reputations don't need an AMP designation to prove their value with their clients who would attest to the sound financial advice they provide.”

In the article, published April 23, Murphy addressed homebuyers and explained the benefits of working with an AMP-designated mortgage broker.

CAAMP created the Accredited Mortgage Professional (AMP) designation so that homebuyers can easily identify mortgage advisers who are knowledgeable and up to date on the local market and are best suited to finding the right mortgage product,” Murphy wrote. “Using the services of an AMP when taking out a mortgage will help you navigate the home buying process and provide you with peace of mind.”

However, thousands of brokers across Canada pay yearly dues to CAAMP while opting out of taking the AMP designation. Murphy’s article has created a divide between AMPs and non-AMPS, argue several industry players.

“The goal of CAAMP should be to unite not divide the industry,” wrote one commenter. “They have made claims that non-AMP brokers were less ethical, now less educated.”

After all, according to one broker, it isn’t the designations but the first-hand experience of working with clients and lenders that contribute to their knowledge and expertise.

“The whole AMP designation is broken. You become knowledgeable and up to date on the market by working full time daily in your business,” Brian Lambert of Real Mortgage Associates wrote in the comments section of “I've seen this same lame attitude in the insurance and investment industry; it is just a money grab by the associations. It gives no creditability to individual Brokers.”
  • gemma on 2014-05-02 11:14:44 AM

    The AMP is a complete money grab...

  • Deedar on 2014-05-02 11:17:07 AM

    This is very Biased. The Wirter knowingly /Unknowing is propogating CAAMP's money grab process. AMP is not required for te Mortgage Industry. If it was so good, FSCO would make it mandatory.

  • Paul Mangion on 2014-05-02 11:22:26 AM

    AMP is useless along with CAAMP. Everybody gets the designation for a few CE credits and a payment. I for one would like to see CAAMP dropped by my franchise but as long as they play ball with CAAMP I have no choice. If everybody drops the AMP designation it will cease to exist.

  • Rick Morgan on 2014-05-02 11:24:58 AM

    Join IMBA , an association for broker/agents only as it should be .

  • Jacquie on 2014-05-02 11:29:40 AM

    The article is unfair to those of us who do not choose the money grab of AMP, we wrote our license exam and know our Sask we also write the annual license exam and AMP is no benefit. Shame on Murphy and CAAMP for the article. Does he even know the industry and license requirements?

  • Zoltan M Padar MortgagePRO Ltd. on 2014-05-02 12:03:05 PM

    Who cares? I for one never understood the need of CAAMP as I am a member on provincial level. I pay fees to RECA, AMBA and I think it is more than enough. I think CAAMP is nothing else than fake feeling of belonging and security. How many more "associations" will provide shelter for poor "public" from the criminal minded mortgage broker? Where is the protection for the professional mortgage broker from the public? From working countless hours, just to wake up to realize the client was not what he has presented himself to be and the others leaving for one tenth of a percentage lower rate? We need protection as well, but we just get kicked around, given fines and over regulated. You all know what I am talking about, though just do not want to stick you neck out for your right.

  • John Sayer on 2014-05-02 12:09:43 PM

    Write me, I have a solution to quiet CAAMP. This divisive propaganda is negative and does a disservice to the 85% who do not buy an AMP designation.

  • John Bargis on 2014-05-02 12:11:16 PM

    Is the CAAMP board listening to any of this???

    Mr. Murphy MUST publicly apologize for his thoughtless comments.

  • Peter Dale on 2014-05-02 12:16:57 PM

    Sometimes it's useful to take public comments such as those written by Mr Murphy and match them to reality.

    As an AMP, I am required to take four compulsory credits and then an additional six from a list of units on the CAAMP website.

    To be knowledgeable about current markets, I can take, as compulsory credits, two reports on the Annual State of the Canadian Residential Mortgage Markets -- for 2011 and 2012.

    For the six additional credits, I can take Architectural Styles ( three credits) and Brain Loading for Success ( three credits). And I am done for this year. My brain is fully loaded.

    I've written to CAAMP about this. Strangely, I've never received a reply that deals directly with these issues.

  • Todd on 2014-05-02 12:28:40 PM

    CAAMP is indeed nothing but a giant money grab. As brokers, we pay annual dues to belong to this organization yet I cannot honestly say that there has been any direct benefit to myself whatsoever. I got the AMP as I was encouraged to do so by my brokerage yet I cannot say that I am any more knowledgeable as a result. Provinces are individually regulated and have their own individual associations, so why to we need this national body that doesn't seem to do anything other than take our money. I'd honestly like to know where all that money goes.

  • A Broker on 2014-05-02 12:30:14 PM

    AMP is the EASIEST designation to get and means nothing. Have a coffee with a lender and get credit. Should a so called professional not be taking university level and accredited courses to obtain this? CAAMP, as I'm sure most people agree, should disappear and an actual professional organization put into place.

  • Zoltan M Padar MortgagePRO Ltd. on 2014-05-02 12:35:55 PM

    An organization what will guide and not discipline the members and an organisation, providing licensing for all the brokers and brokerages across Canada breaking down the borders between provinces and unite the industry. Nobody can tell me I worth less or I know less than the brokers any other provinces. We should be equal and handled as such in every jurisdictions. We all Canadian professionals and should not feel less just because we are governed by people have no clue.

  • Angela Wong-Liao - Invis Inc on 2014-05-02 12:42:48 PM

    I am an AMP since its invention in early 2000 because my brokerage insisted we have this designation. Frankly, this designation makes very little difference to me and my clients as majority of my businesses are from word of mouth, from satisfied clients and repeat satisfied clients.

  • BC Broker on 2014-05-02 12:45:37 PM

    Next to the medical degree I got from some Caribbean university, my AMP designation was pretty easy. Self report some bogus CE requirements and SEND IN THE CASH each year, and you're in to Mr. Murphy's apparently elite club.

    I maintained my AMP for 10 years hoping it would gain some traction to no avail. I gave it up and don't appear to have clients heading for the hills because I don't have it.

  • John Bargis on 2014-05-02 1:02:18 PM

    To Angela Wong-Liao

    Respectfully, you and your team need to face the music and set your brokerage straight...The more you and your brokerage support this nonsense, the more it will fuel this toxic fire.....Change is what is desperately needed here.

  • John Sayer on 2014-05-02 1:04:12 PM

    How is your amp?

    If you do not carry an amp designation are you less ethical? Are you less skilled? caamp have made this public statement! They have blooded their own membership in the national media. If you are an non amp they have shorted your reputation at your expense with your dues. The message pay or play, extortion?

    If you are not an amp I strongly suggest you advise your non amp designated caamp’ers to with hold their dues for 2014. There are 7,948 non amp skilled designates who deserve support from caamp, heck you paid for it. Let caamp decide how 2,464 designates will support the fat in caamp. The head table might have a few less scampi on their room service tab next golf tournament, seminar or national gathering.

    caamp have openly divided their largest supporting group, 7,948 dues paying members deserve to be hear not hearded.

    Send a message to caamp and pick on someone their own size. caamp should work to benefit and support all their members, if caamp want to grow the business support its members to gain a 50% market share.

  • Kevin Corcoran on 2014-05-02 1:56:30 PM

    I opted out of the AMP 4 years ago Having been a broker since 1996 I am offended by someone who suggests that by not joining their club & paying the dues this makes me less skilled , ethical or less educated than an agent who has recently come into the industry who opts in for a designation that is earned with cheque writing ability

  • Deedar on 2014-05-02 2:17:01 PM

    Shame on CAAMP and their CEO. There should be civil suit filed against him for false Propoganda to harm the reputation of Mortgage Brokers.

  • John Benstead on 2014-05-02 3:07:58 PM

    When I can stop 10,000 people at say, Yonge and Bloor and find a single person who knows what AMP stands for, I might consider becoming one. Actually I was an AMP once, I believe for a maximum of a day and a half, then i realised it was more money for no added value. happily supporting IMBA now.

  • Frank on 2014-05-04 10:59:21 AM

    Asking the other members of CAAMP....what is the process of getting rid of Murphy?

  • Deborah on 2014-05-04 4:32:31 PM

    I have never had anyone say to me that they didn't want to use me as their mortgage broker because I wasn't an AMP.
    Experience, not how much money you want to pay into the system is what makes you a good mortgage broker.
    Some people only use banks because they think they are the best, and we all know the kind of training they have.

  • Frank on 2014-05-05 11:33:40 AM

    funny....not one comment on this forum extolling the virtues of being an AMP? No testimonials of how being an AMP has had a huge, positive impact on someone's business...

  • BC Broker on 2014-05-05 11:56:59 AM

    CAAMP pays the heads of the big franchisors a referral fee for every broker that is a member. That's why the big guys support CAAMP and force their brokers to join.
    Notice how CAAMP is silent on government policy changes ( see the anti spam article) and leaves that incredibly important work to provincial associations.

  • Anonymous on 2014-05-05 12:06:24 PM

    I've worked for the same company for over 8 yrs now and it is a requirement to have the AMP designation. Not once did our clients ask what AMP is and I don't think our clients will turn away from us if we didn't have it. This is definitely a money grab, not needed at all and if your a good professional mortgage broker, you will always stay current and up-to-date within the mortgage industry's guidelines and product knowledge. Your clients don't come to you because you have AMP attached to your name, they come to you for your knowledge in the mortgage market, your advice and service you provide to them. Having this AMP does not make you better than anyone else, says someone who unfortunately has no choice but to have this title attached their name.

  • John Bargis on 2014-05-05 12:23:20 PM

    Still no apology for this fiasco.....It's unfortunate that the Board of CAAMP hasn't taken immediate appropriate action to deal with this industry wide concern.

  • Frank on 2014-05-06 11:33:53 AM

    the thing that bugs me is that Murphy's comments insinuates to the consumer that their interest are protected if they deal with an AMP. Wouldn't it be interesting if one of the clients, having a grievance with an AMP-done transaction takes legal action against CAAMP for falsely suggesting their interests are protected. Food for thought...

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