Brokers call for CAAMP membership rule change

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Industry players are calling for CAAMP to change a membership rule blocking individual brokers unless all their team signs up too.

“Mr. Ellenzweig (VP, Member Services at CAAMP) and the other directors at CAAMP told me unless all of my agents join I could not join,” Darick Battaglia, principal broker of Dominion Lending Centres YBM Group told “I said I can’t get all of my agents to join and they said I can’t become a member; and then when (some) agents requested to join, (CAAMP) said 'sorry you can’t join because your (principal) broker is not a member.'”

A number of YBM Group brokers tried, fruitlessly, to plead their individual cases with the national organization through a number of emails and phone calls.

“I spoke to Jim Murphy about it and the fact of the matter is it’s in the CAAMP bylines and until they decide to change those bylaws, their hands are tied,” Adam Bazuk or DLC YBM Group said. “Way back when they thought it was smart to have a policy that (says) the brokerage, itself, has to be a member (and) if they aren’t a member I can’t be a member of CAAMP.”

Bazuk wondered if CAAMP’s policy of not including individuals is a way to keep un-affiliated brokers from joining. Though he believes the organization can audit each individual applicant to ensure each member is a practicing broker.

“They can go to the FSCO website; they can see that I’ve renewed as a broker, they can see that I’m licensed, they can see that I’m licensed to a brokerage, they can see that I’ve taken all the AMP tests,” Bazuk said. “So why can’t I just pay them $250 a year to be a member of the national organization?”

Nevertheless, a number of DLC YBM Group brokers still wish to join.

 “We do believe in joining associations – maybe not all of my agents want to become members of both IMBA and CAAMP but because of that, it totally eliminates us from being members of CAAMP,” Battaglia said. “(But) they’re the ones that created a bylaw to make it impossible for us to join.”

Calls and emails to CAAMP were not returned by press time.
  • Michael on 2014-04-03 11:40:53 AM


  • steve kates on 2014-04-03 11:41:26 AM

    we require all of our sales team to belong camp and imba we have to support our industry .
    steve kates v.p. Northwood mortgage

  • Michael on 2014-04-03 11:46:44 AM

    I have no problem with being a a CAMP member at all,but to have the AMP does not do a thing for anyone as it is just a money grab.Why should I pay for a course for a course that shows me how to legally lie to a client,when I refuse to lie to anyone in the first place.Just so you can put a client trough Home Trust and say they are self employed,do not think so?????

  • Dan Faubert on 2014-04-03 11:47:01 AM

    I had this same issue years ago, and jumped through these same hoops to no avail. It is simply a money grab, all or no one, and they are unlikely to change their ways. A very closed minded policy. I am no longer a member of CAAMP, and have no intentions of becoming one.

  • Max J. Cafissi on 2014-04-03 11:56:01 AM

    Belonging to CAAMP has absolutely no value to us as Mortgage Brokers and Agents. The Organization is controlled by the Lenders and does vet little to promote the interests of the Brokerage community. If we want to strengthen the voice of our Industry, I would suggest that those who are Members of CAAMP let their Membership lapse, join IMBA or start a new Industry Association, and forget about CAAMP and their worthless AMP designation. It's only a " money grab " and is bestowed on Lenders and Bank reps, some of which are marginally qualified to even be in our Industry.

  • on 2014-04-03 12:18:38 PM

    Our business model is strictly commission based. Our agents are responsible for their own expenses including membership costs. Although I highly recommend membership with IMBA and CAAMP it is not a licensing requirement with FSCO. The majority of our agents are members of IMBA and quite a few wished to join CAAMP but were refused based on the reasons above.

  • John Bargis on 2014-04-03 12:25:46 PM

    The by-law being referenced in the above article has been around for a very long time, and has been selectively enforced for just as long.

    My question is, why does anyone who complains about CAAMP even care? If one doesn't want to be a member of CAAMP for legitimate reason's, why allow them to strong arm you when there are better options available?.....The regional associations are actually pretty good. Try them, you may be pleasantly surprised at how well they represent the broker industry.

  • Rachelle on 2014-04-03 12:39:52 PM

    Interesting Comment, Max Cafissi. I believe it was CAAMP who went to bat for you in Ottawa to ensure your broker commission didn't have GST/HST applied to it. It would be an interesting calculation to take your 2013 income and deduct what you would have been paying in taxes that you would have been charged had CAAMP not gone to bat for you, the mortgage broker.
    I'm pretty sure that wasn't for the lender's interests. It seems to me the people with the biggest mouths don't actually know what they're talking about.

  • John Bargis on 2014-04-03 12:48:35 PM

    Hi Rachelle

    Although CAAMP, IMBA and others took part in the lobby as it relates to the GST/HST initiative, lets not forget that the biggest lobby group against this tax and with much more clout was the Canadian Banker's Association....In other words, it was very much a concerted effort.

  • Rachelle on 2014-04-03 12:49:38 PM

    totally agree! and that's what makes our industry great! we band together. I don't think any association is out for one particular party and I believe this is a great example.

  • Mario on 2014-04-03 12:51:59 PM

    Rachelle, I am a member of CAAMP mainly because my brokerage is a member. But do you really believe that it was CAAMP that did away with HST on mortgage broker services?
    F.P.'s don't charge HST and come to think of it neither to Insurance Brokers. Besides if we were to charge HST, it would be the F.I's paying our finder's fee that would have to pay it. we would simply become a collection channel for the gov't.

  • Chris S. on 2014-04-03 12:52:30 PM

    CAAMP was designed years ago as CIMBL to represent the large bank interests ... not the mortgage professionals. The majority of CAAMP members are employees of banks and not even licensed through FSCO. Just a money grab. Only have one question ... Accredited by whom?

  • Max J. Cafissi on 2014-04-03 12:52:35 PM

    Hey Rachelle, I'm expressing my opinion without offending my fellow Brokers & Agents. I used to own a franchise of the Equity Centre, which became the Mortgage Centre, which was subsequently purchased by CIBC. At that time, we were forced to be Members of CAAMP, because our Corporate owners ( ie CIBC ) mandated it. I left that Network in 1996 but, to my knowledge, when CIBC formed their Home Loans Canada division, they had to join CAAMP and get their AMP designation. Have you met any of the HLC Reps ? Do you consider the majority of them to be your Peers ? I don't, in most cases, yet they are Members of CAAMP and have the AMP designation. I don't think it's a qauestion of having a " big mouth ". It's more a question of having been in the Industry since 1988 and having seen a lot of changes. The ones that I have seen associated with CAAMP don't impress me at all. How many past Presidents of CAAMP landed up in jail ? Check that out.

  • Christopher on 2014-04-03 2:29:27 PM

    Rachelle - As someone who is very knowledgeable regarding tax law, all CAAMP and the CBA did was point out the rules as they exist to financial services.

    I've fought a few battles with CRA, and haven't lost yet as the Income Tax Act has been on my side of the argument in every case.

  • John Bargis on 2014-04-03 2:40:25 PM

    Excellent observation Christopher....Yet the perceived value of CAAMP's contribution is far greater by those who don't have a handle on tax law and how the financial service we provide to clients is exempt under the tax act....Ignorance is bliss.

  • Interested Party on 2014-04-03 3:53:08 PM

    Why all the CAAMP bashing? Awesome association (as is IMBA, MBABC, AMBA) and if anyone would like to point fingers about "cash grab"....CMP is a cash grab.

  • Cori M on 2014-04-03 9:33:27 PM

    I'm not about "bashing" the organization itself, only their silly by-law for membership that actually leaves them with the potential for lesser "quality" memberships in preference over "quantity" of members. More does not mean better and the organization is actually losing very good quality members because of this rule, some leaving out of principle!
    I was a member of CAAMP for several years and also paid the fees and did the courses to receive my "AMP" designation. The company I was licensed under changed ownership and the new owner did not support CAAMP, so I was faced with the choice of changing Brokerages, or letting my membership drop. So I changed Brokerages.... some time later, the Owners of my new Brokerage also dropped CAAMP membership, feeling that there was no value being received in exchange for the fees paid and it was merely a cash-grab organization. So at the end of the day, my membership and Amp designation were stripped from me, even though I would have continued with them!
    On a side note, I personally don't see much that CAAMP offers over the Provincial organizations, other than the AMP designation, which really doesn't hold much weight in the industry, or in the public. The general public should be the audience when it comes to education and CAAMP seems to spend more marketing dollars within the industry encouraging brokers to join, rather than educating the public about the benefits of using Brokers and the benefits of working with AMPs.
    Sorry for the rant, but I feel it's rather unfair that as a supporting broker, I was not able to continue to support the organization and it was a rule that lost them a valuable member!

  • Chris S. on 2014-04-04 9:25:13 AM

    To John ... The name is Chris not Christopher ... I fully understand the implications of any tax change to the bank ... that is why CAAMP stepped up ... you are missing the point of most of the posts on this forum ... CAAMP was designed by the banks to create the perception of credibility over the brokerage programs ... that is why their rules tend to remove brokerages and support banks who by the way pay just one fee per year for as many members as they wish. IMBA is a great association tat does great work for us, brokers ... that is why few bankers belong to IMBA ... CAAMP represents the banks and tries to exclude brokers. There is a reason banks make over $1000 per second profit.

  • herp derp on 2014-04-04 10:05:46 AM

    LOL this guy ^^

  • John Bargis on 2014-04-04 10:38:53 AM

    Thanks for the in depth analysis "Chris"....Trust me, I get the point.

  • steve kates on 2014-04-04 10:45:54 AM

    as an o4riginal member of imba when there was only 16 of us we have come a long way in representing the mortgage industry and I have to give a lot of credit to JEFF ATLIN may he rest in peace for taking us up to the level we are at now .

  • Dave on 2014-04-04 11:18:06 AM

    How come CAAMP never runs one TV ad nationally to promote brokers?? Not one....

    We have to rely on Dominion Lending and Don Cherry???

    This is what my CAAMP fees are good for?

  • John Bargis on 2014-04-04 1:19:13 PM

    Jeff was truly a giant, and he will be terribly missed, but not forgotten!!!

  • RickyD on 2014-04-07 11:59:11 AM

    I would love to opt out of CAAMP, but, unfortunately my brokerage is a member. However, I did drop the AMP designation though, as it WAS a Money Grab; for a designation that should have been a one-time only payment thing!

  • John Bargis on 2014-04-07 2:07:31 PM

    Unfortunate that an "UNKNOWN" weighs in with comments like this. You make it sound like you're the authority on this issue.

    You really should put you name to this UNKNOWN, if you have nothing to fear.....These postings could be traced.

  • Alta Broker on 2014-04-07 5:52:38 PM

    CAAMP has run TV spots in the past. The AMP program is a mess and needs a serious rethink. I believe CAAMP will admit that.
    CAAMP is for lenders and brokers, not just brokers. The provincial association are broker associations only.

  • Chris S. on 2014-04-07 7:10:22 PM

    Signing off - I think I made valid point ... CAAMP is for banks ... IMBA for mortgage professionals

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