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Mortgage Broker News | 19 Apr 2011, 09:36 AM Agree 0
With multiple statements, RBC moved to distance itself from the controversial flyer of one of its mobile mortgage specialists – apologizing for its unflattering and inaccurate depiction of brokers.
  • ExRBC Mortgage Specialist | 20 Apr 2011, 12:40 AM Agree 0
    A search of the RBC website for documents by Nicole Fisher or Ian Colvin , the so called "Apology Documents" does not yield any. It seems RBC is only interested in distancing themselves from the public outcry by their comments, but do not think it worthwhile to give those comments any weight by posting their "apologies" on their own website, and perhaps asking for feedback.
    A truly sincere apology would be available for public viewing on their own website and it would go a long way toward convincing the brokers, the regulators and the public that this was a mistake by a "rogue Mortgage Specialist" not the prevailing attitude of the bank.
  • AMBA | 20 Apr 2011, 02:11 AM Agree 0
    Check out AMBA President Dean Koeller's response to the recent comments.

    http://amba.ca/Default.aspx?tabid=298
  • Mike | 20 Apr 2011, 03:27 AM Agree 0
    Has anybody actually seen this so called document? Anyone know where we can find it?
  • ExRBC Mortgage Specialist | 20 Apr 2011, 04:22 AM Agree 0
    The link that AMBA purports to be the apology letter to brokers sends the reader right back to this very page. That's telling them!!
    As to the document, follow the links on www.gregwilliamson.ca .
  • Ontario Broker | 21 Apr 2011, 01:10 AM Agree 0
    RBC should really look inside before commenting on the outside, they to farm out deals, they to have education but not nearly as regulated as IMBA, AMBA, BCMBA or CAAMP. A Mortgage Broker competing head on with RBC will loose the deal most times because when they see the offered rate they will drop theirs. Why dont they offer the best available on the market up front just like Mortgage Brokers do? I wonder
  • Christopher | 21 Apr 2011, 01:10 AM Agree 0
    The RBC Mortgage Specialists I know are all AMPs. It appears this one fell asleep in class.
  • Peter | 21 Apr 2011, 01:15 AM Agree 0
    Where is MBABC our local broker association in all this, I here comments from CAAMP and AMBA, surely with only the Canucks to report on a local paper could use a quote from MBABC, start pounding the drum and get this to the media for the broker channel you represent.
  • Concerned | 21 Apr 2011, 01:18 AM Agree 0
    I think an apology will not be enough at this point. Banks should be held to the same standard us as brokers are. RBC is not the only bank who has been spreading this verbally for years. Clearly this issue goes much deeper than healthy competition and I feel every person in Canada who sells mortgages should be licensed in their province. It is time for change and this mis-representation of our profession has made that abundantly clear.
  • ExMajor bank employee for 25 years | 21 Apr 2011, 01:35 AM Agree 0
    Although I've been out of the branch for 9 years now, I can tell you ANY advertising by bank personnel has to be approved by their Regional or Head Office prior to publication..... As such, RBC shame on you for either approving this specialist's advertising OR shame on you for not doing your due dilligence to ensure your personnel are adhering to your policies and guidelines....either way - RBC should be placing a public apology on their website to our industry AND disciplining the subject employee
  • @kiltedbroker | 21 Apr 2011, 01:35 AM Agree 0
    I think that the apology from RBC is a great first step. Personally I have made mistakes in the past, and when I own up to them, it is nice to be met with a little grace. I would like to see this agent/specialist(?) issue an apology as well (or defend her position and start an even bigger argument)
  • Alberta Broker | 21 Apr 2011, 01:46 AM Agree 0
    Nice of RBC to apologize. What are they doing to ensure that everyone who received the flyer has also received a copy of the apology letter outlining the inaccurante and unflattering information?
  • ExRBC Specialist now Broker | 21 Apr 2011, 02:25 AM Agree 0
    It comes down to client education. This individual who wrote this is banking (pun intended absolutely!)on the ignorance of the consumer public. When the last CAAMP survey reported that only 5% of Canadians really understood what mortgage broker service offerings is all about, that's a failure on our own industry in getting that message out. CAAMP get on it!
  • Ontario Broker III | 21 Apr 2011, 03:55 AM Agree 0
    Who ever wrote that "All" RBC road warriors are AMPS - better look again! In order to be an AMP you must be a member of CAAMP .. In the past 10 years look at the CAAMP roster - 2 RBC peeps - thats it - 2 !!! Mortgage Specialist - another oxymoron - how can any banks mortgage rep be a "Specialist" when they are offering one banks products? Fixed, variable or LOC - that what you get as a specialist ??? Hmmmmmmmm !!!
  • Dean, former Bank employee | 21 Apr 2011, 04:02 AM Agree 0
    RBC has apologized in segments to the industry via its Associations; however, this does not undo the damage the document may have caused to the industry's members potential revenue. The document went public; where is RBC's public apology and where is the writer's public apology to our industry and a public retraction admitting she was incorrect. RBC has placed distance between them and the writer, so they say. She is still listed on RBC Website. Where is the ownership of this document stop? All advertising has to be approved; the blame also falls on the individual that signed off on the document.

    I'm curious if any other brokers feel the document has legs in a Class Action Defamation of Character lawsuit.
  • ExRBC Mortgage Specialist | 21 Apr 2011, 04:21 AM Agree 0
    Nice thought Dean, but you must prove financial loss before you will win anything in court. The so called RBC apology has not even been published by mortgagebrokernews.ca. We don't even know what was actually said. We only got a very abbreviated version of this so called apology. The quotes from Fisher or Colvin do NOT EVEN contain the word "apology" in them. Just what kind of an apology is this.It's almost as if mortgagebrokernews.ca is apologizing on behalf of RBC. That's our own channel being apologistic about RBC's affront?
  • CMP Editor John Tenpenny | 21 Apr 2011, 04:26 AM Agree 0
    To ExRBC Mortgage Specialist
    The two statements from RBC were the extent of their comments. No formal letter has been put out by RBC, just the individual comments. Also the first statement from Nicole Fisher did include the word "apologize."
  • Not Enough | 21 Apr 2011, 04:33 AM Agree 0
    OK, the RBC apology is a good first step but we’re the only ones that get to see it, as our trade publications and their message boards are not generally for public consumption. Therefore what RBC needs to do in order to truly show their contrition is to issue a public retraction – like in major newspapers – because we can never know how many members of the public have seen this document and believe it to be true because it was (apparently) sanctioned by RBC. I’d like so see a list published with content something along the lines of: “[this] was erroneously stated about [brokers], but in actual fact [this] is the full truth.” Again, their apology is very nice but RBC needs to provide OUR damage control at THEIR expense. AND their rep (the author of the document) needs to be fired. I KNOW my brokerage would fire me in a second if I put out something on their letterhead that contained misinformation that got national attention – actually local attention would probably be enough to get me kicked to the curb.
  • ExRBC Mortgage Specialist | 21 Apr 2011, 04:34 AM Agree 0
    Appreciate the speedy clarification. Thanks!
  • Not Enough | 21 Apr 2011, 04:35 AM Agree 0
    OK, the RBC apology is a good first step but we’re the only ones that get to see it, as our trade publications and their message boards are not generally for public consumption. Therefore what RBC needs to do in order to truly show their contrition is to issue a public retraction – like in major newspapers – because we can never know how many members of the public have seen this document and believe it to be true because it was (apparently) sanctioned by RBC. I’d like so see a list published with content something along the lines of: “[this] was erroneously stated about [brokers], but in actual fact [this] is the full truth.” Again, their apology is very nice but RBC needs to provide OUR damage control at THEIR expense. AND their rep (the author of the document) needs to be fired. I KNOW my brokerage would fire me in a second if I put out something on their letterhead that contained misinformation that got national attention – actually local attention would probably be enough to get me kicked to the curb.
  • Deb | 21 Apr 2011, 05:00 AM Agree 0
    I do have to agree with the one comment that said, "Personally I have made mistakes in the past, and when I own up to them, it is nice to be met with a little grace." I do have to agree because it is possible that the person that wrote the article had been told those exact things by their senior colleagues and truly believed it to be accurate.

    Before I became a Mortgage Broker the Branch Manager of the Consumer Finance Company that I worked for verbalized those exact words all the time about Mortgage Brokers because she didn't know any difference and was uneducated; she also verbalized other not so nice things about Mortgage Brokers which are again all wrong. I think there needs to be more advertising done about the truths of Mortgage Brokers and what we do. To educate the public in general.
  • Not Enough | 21 Apr 2011, 05:18 AM Agree 0
    What about putting together groups of brokers across the country to picket RBC branches until they step up? It would get us tons of attention and make RBC look terrible.
  • RBC is Laughing | 21 Apr 2011, 06:13 AM Agree 0
    The damage has been done. This has been going on for years and years. I think there is some merit to what Dean is saying. Don’t you see that this could be an opportunity for us? We have all over the years run across these so called “rovers” who are on one hand spilling bad stuff about our industry and us mortgage brokers and then on the other telling clients they are the same as a mortgage broker as they can source the business out if declined within.

    I say we utilize our surplus in our CAAMP coiffeurs and 1) demand a formal apology and 2) more regulations to their sourcing out departments – same rules as us for proper disclosure and licensing. This needs to stop once and for all and without a united front this will continue to fester. “Where there is smoke there is fire”

    Oh sure we can all forget all about this cause they said sorry but this blunder will not be the last. And we are only as good as our reputations. RBC has a major portion of Canadian clients and you can sit back and say this won’t/doesn’t affect me but you’re in denial. If enough people contact CAAMP and we all make our voices heard then something really will happen. Each and every one of our opinion counts. Make a stand
    .
  • Robi | 21 Apr 2011, 07:14 AM Agree 0
    RBC has sent a message to all Mortgage Brokers. It is time to follow up with our own. A stronger, more public message. As in every field there will be some that do not act as professional as we would like; as with the “Specialists” who forgot to do their own homework to verify who we actually are. That being said we need to showcase our strengths. Unfortunately, the CAAMP brand is still very new and does not hold the same weight of the RBC brand. But RBC is not the only Lender who actually wants to cut out the mortgage broker…..
  • Again If We Knew All Along... | 21 Apr 2011, 07:23 AM Agree 0
    If our industry knew all along the verbage used by bankers against brokers were negative, why have we (CAAMP)not done anything to counter these. Like continuously promoting the positive differences between bank and broker. So that if bank wants to bash us, the public is smart enough to know because they have been educated. This was an opportunistic fumble on RBC's part because they smell a weak association and want to see how far they can push before shoving us aside. RBC has not played the rate game just yet. Imagine if they want to do what BMO is doing trying to buy business with their deep discount, we would see a big dent in broker business and a consumer shift to bank.
  • THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY | 21 Apr 2011, 07:32 AM Agree 0
    We "know" RBC Mortgage Specialists have been misrepresenting mortgage brokers to their clients for many years. We finally have written evidence of how a specialist can and sometimes does purposefully mislead clients on the services provided by mortgage brokers.
    Now is the time to figure out the BEST way to gather public attention to documented evidence that : 1. The bank will sometimes lie to their clients about our services, and 2. That the Bank is doing its best to keep their officers indiscretions from becoming public , and 3. That the officer who purposefully circulated false and misleading continues to represent the Bank, and 4. That it is time to insist that the Mortgage Specialists for major financial institutions be licensed and required to uphold the same rigorous professional standards as independent mortgage brokers.

    I do not have the answer to what is the best course BUT CAAMP, and all of our local associations should work together to formulate a united front.
    Show us some power. Let's at least TRY to show the RBC that they need to make a better effort to ensure that their representatives act consistently in a trustworthy and professional manner.

  • Dave | 21 Apr 2011, 08:39 AM Agree 0
    There will be no repercussion what so ever. RBC has never co-operated with Brokers before and that same lack of respect for the industry will continue on in this regard also. The only place you have read about this issue is industry only websites and blogs. No one but Brokers are reading about it NOT the general public and you will not get any main stream media to follow the story because that could jeopardize their advertising revenue. If a Broker was to do the same NON Complaint advertising they would have IMBA, AMBA, CAAMP, FSCO crawling all over them but this lady is still employed by the Royal Bank and yes has probably completed some mortgage applications in the past week because the public does not know. I have been listening to this type of crap from Bank Representatives for years. This Rep was just stupid enough to put it in writing. If you are really waiting for anything to happen you are wasting your time. What's the Bank, the same Bank that has never cooperated with Brokers, go on record on their website, in the public media and say Brokers OK, you are kidding yourself. OK that was my rant of the day I am going back to writing business.
  • Joanne Vickery - Past President MBABC | 21 Apr 2011, 08:53 AM Agree 0
    To Peter - this letter was brought to MBABC attention and we immediately took action. In conjunction with our sister associations AMBA and CAAMP our research uncovered as situation where an employee was acting on their own volition and was not the position of RBC. An apology has since ensued. The MBABC communicated our members of our response in a very timely manner on April 18, 2011, please refer to the MBABC website to view the posted response.
  • John Wright | 21 Apr 2011, 10:59 AM Agree 0
    RBC has sourced mortgages from Mortgage Brokers in the past. They were an investor for First National in the late nineties when I worked there. I'm not sure how long that relationship lasted.
  • just me | 22 Apr 2011, 06:18 PM Agree 0
    what I find ridiculous is just how many RBC mobile reps send business to brokers when they can't get it done thru RBC. Hypocrites!
  • BC Broker | 23 Apr 2011, 08:16 AM Agree 0
    RBC apology published in the Financial Post, just works out to be extra advertising for them. If their broker specialists are salaried employees as they mention there, they should be taking full responsibiity, and not only say this was an inaccutate perception of an individual, I have not seen any article clarifying how independent brokers work. This event just made more consumers aware of the inaccurate flyer, and they may now be wondering how much of this is actually true.
    In the meantime, what action has been taken against the author of the flyer?
  • Brokering deals with RBC | 25 Apr 2011, 03:13 AM Agree 0
    Where is the apology from Corrine Schindler? She categorizes Mortgage Brokers as sleezy sales reps like characters from movies like Glengarry Ross or Boiler Room... Her statements are clearly aimed at making the sale... I'm curious about what follow up program she uses? Does she stay in contact with all her clients on a monthly basis? Will she recommend that a client lock into a fixed rate if rates are heading up? Will she advise a client to break a mortgage if they can save money? How long has Corrine been in her current position? How long does she intend on staying in that position? She is a Personal Financial Planner...does that mean she is going back to being a PFP or did she have trouble cutting it in that field so she's now trying Mortgages? Why doesn't she talk about the RBC declined mortgages....she forgot to tell the client that if RBC declines the mortgage, they will broker the application to secondary lenders like Home Trust, Equitable Trust and other Lenders....and they will charge a fee in many cases... and the RBC Mortgage Specialist will get FEE in return.... Why isn't she telling anyone this?
  • Kimi Dora | 26 Sep 2013, 12:26 PM Agree 0
    ..jessss...!!!!... RBC sucks... they just WITHDRAW my moms money without her permission!!!!!...and thats money is for our mortgage!!!... and now were destroy.... Hypocrites RBC... get lost...
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